I'm not sure that this quite answers the question. Without this capability Paulus would not have had the control he needed at Pydna. Philip used spears twice as long as typical hoplite phalanxes. Mass distribution of the Macedonian Sarissa pike. Do you mind if I open a separate question about this ("how rich was Macedonia" or something like that) to clarify the matter? Their Cavalry was easily the most effective mounted force in the Ancient World. The Romans legions were superior because they were disciplined and could attack weak spot of the phallanx. The Macedonian sarissa was longer than the hoplite version, which would give it an advantage over a phalanx with shorter weapons. hoplites also fought as a unit. 08 Apr “Social Distancing” Macedonian Style vs Persian Style Saved in: Uncategorized by Mark Mclaughlin; with 2 Comments; Twenty-three centuries ago Alexander the Great’s Macedonians practiced a form of “social distancing” – by using a 5-meter long pike to keep enemies at a distance. Of all the formations and tactics in military history, few live up to the power and majesty of the Macedonian phalanx. later that the sight of the phalanx filled him with alarm and (3) Erosion of the Macedonian Cavalry Advantage. (2) Signalling. The longer spears were better at defending the phalanx and holding the enemy setting them up for the other units. The sarissa itself was a two-handed spear or pike, between four and seven metres long, and was adopted by the armies of Philip II, Alexander the … It was introduced by Philip II of Macedon and … 488 People Used More Information ›› However, perhaps the dory, being one-handed, has more range of motion, allowing more momentum to build up? attacking the phalangites on their exposed flanks. Is the Afghan hat related to the Macedonian hat? The one battle Macedon should have won was Cynoscephalae where Phillip V mismanaged his army after initial successes. (-1-) When Paulus conquered Macedonia, he took immense riches and booty. They also had engineers with siege weapons and artillery which was used against enemy formations and not just during seiges. Liddell Hart has all the details. After reading some of the responses hear I have to say that everyone who stated that a phalanx equipped with sarissas is superior to a classical hoplite phalanx is categorically wrong. They again grew overly dependent upon the phalanx. In 28mm games I play the maps are different -- smaller (2'x2' to 4'x4' vs the 4'x8' that my 15mm games are) and generally have one main focus such as a single building or group of buildings. All the Greek phalanxes used Spears or pikemen all the phalanx men had swords as secondary weapons. Philip of Macedon unlike most of the Greeks whom he would conquer, had an army of mixed units. The key invention was to put hooks and wide, forged blades on the pikes to fight horses. If it was wooded or rocky terrain, phalanx were dangerous to use because they would be forced apart and thus become vulnerable. In Medieval and Renaissance times there was a comeback of the basic form of the phalanx as "pikemen". Sarissa Tool Module Error-Free Control of Tool Processes Adapted to the specific task of monitoring and controlling the exact position of a tool moving freely in space, the Local Positioning System makes a significant contribution to 100% manufacturing quality assurance that is not possible by any other means with such a high degree of flexibility. Although it did not succeed in every battle, the army of Philip II was able to successfully adopt the military tactics of its enemies, such as the embolon (i.e. Mass distribution of the Macedonian Sarissa pike. Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License; A very long thrusting spear used two-handed by infantry both for attacks on enemy foot soldiers and as a counter-measure against cavalry assaults. We will be on the road again during 2019 visiting as many shows as we can. @FelixGoldberg Regardless of its "empire" status, Macedonia was fantastically rich at the time of the Battle of Pydna. This was what let them find and exploit the weak spots in the phalanx. History Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for historians and history buffs. Philip of Macedon, who built and trained Alexander's army, primary innovations were: All of these innovations Alexander the Great inherited from his father Philip. Philip added the pikemen first as a specialist addition to the heavy infantry. The pilum could inflict losses and cause gaps in the phalanx. In its time, this intricately designed method of fighting proved a super weapon, forming the nucleus of armies commanded by some of history’s best military leaders – from Pyrrhus to Alexander the Great. But this required their be a fifth row of spearmen. The assumption that Philip of Macedon made radical changes seems questionable. Was the Macedonian phalanx, with their long spears and small shields, really more effective than the hoplites? It seems more like Romans outsmarted phalanx. What do men in the middle of a phalanx contribute? succeeded in routing the Macedonian left. Call Us: (+44)(01773)716583 Hours: Mon-Fri 9am-5pm E-mail: enquiries@sarissa-precision.co.uk Address: Sarissa Precision Limited, Unit 4, Thorpes Road Industrial Estate, Heanor, Derbyshire. All pikemen were essentially Hoplites trained and equipped as pikemen. A pointy extrusion at the toe of a shoe, found in old-fashioned footwear. Another thing to note is that Alexander's great successes were due in part to his mastery of combined arms operations - he usually relied on his phalanx to pin the enemy troops while he took them in the flank with heavy cavalry. The. Was homosexuality rarer in ancient Sparta than in any other Greek state? Is there a way to separate geometry that shares verts/edges? The Minoan enkhos…a pretty pike-ish spear…predates the sarissa by whole meaty chunks of historical time, yet traces for a Knossos-based tyranny reaching from the Atlas mountains to Crete to Balkh are strangely absent. Paullus now ordered the legions into the gaps, Because after Alexander died, the Macedonians returned to fighting like all the other greeks did. So while the Macedonian Phalanx was more defended unless the enemy infantry was willing to throw themselves upon the spear tips of the Macedonians it was not really capable of closing with the enemy consistently to make it a reliable offensive threat. Is there any scientific way a ship could fall off the edge of the world? The hoplites lacked such a system. This is not a hoplite vs pikeman question. The phalanx was much better working on defense than offense. A tightly formed phalanx of sarissa-armed infantry presented an almost impenetrable wall of spear points, especially to cavalry. How can mage guilds compete in an industry which allows others to resell their products? The Macedonian army was one of the first military forces to use 'combined arms tactics', using a variety of specialised troops to fulfill specific battlefield roles in order to form a greater whole. They were soon joined by the Roman right, which had They were essentially a mobile fortification which could roll up on any battlefield and become the fulcrum for the numerous other Macedonian unites to leverage. The Wikipedia article downplays this, but at the time it was a serious setback. The Romans had developed a very elaborate system of signals that allowed them to do complex maneuvers. If I had a choice, I know which army I would like to be in!! What does sarissa mean? Finally, it had two great advantages: 1) It had siege engines and could besiege/take towns and, 2) Its Logistics system was highly effective. Although very long spears had been used since the dawn of organized warfare (notably illustrated in art showing Sumerian and Minoan warriors and hunters), the earliest recorded use of a pike-like weapon in the tactical method described above involved the Macedonian sarissa, used by the troops of Alexander the Great's father, Philip II of Macedon, and successive dynasties, which dominated warfare for several centuries in many countries. their points, but with little success. Rome suffered defeats against Pyrrhus and, in spite of what the Roman accounts said, had considerable trouble dealing with the Phalanx. Why doesn't NASA release all the aerospace technology into public domain? ground. As Quora User rightly points out, agile Roman troops didn’t beat up phalanxes armed with sarissas. When the Macedonians fought Rome however, Rome did have a mixed formation army which is ultimately how they won. Was the Macedonian phalanx, with their long spears and small shields, really more effective than the hoplites? Alexander the Great appears to have been one of the first generals to employ artillery on the open field of battle, rather than in a siege. How to request help on a project without throwing my co-worker "under the bus". The Romans seemed to outfight the Macedonian phalanx pretty easily. Yes they were, their unification of Greece, and invasion of Persia is one proof. I would like to know your opinion of the pros and cons of Qin pikemen, who held 7m long pikes with both hands, vs Macedonian phalagites who held a sarissa on one hand and a shield in the other. Artillery The Macedonian phalanx was not called to fight apart from the rest of the army. site design / logo © 2020 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under cc by-sa. The Macedonians under Philip and then Alexander utilized an army of mixed components where few others did and fewer still had developed the tactics which made these mixed component armies so lethal. … You may also want to read the Wikipedia article on the battle. With the superior tactics the Macedonians employed their phalanx was an integrated component of their army. Your contention that "Romans seemed to outfight Macedonian phalanx pretty easily" is not really true. Is there any good source to read about the reasons the Macedonians used the phalanx instead of the classic hoplites way of fighting? I mean in term of how to use them properly. Eventually Paulus won by waiting for the phalanx to move into hilly terrain and attack in the spaces in between their ranks. In case of siege warfare, the sarissa pike became less useful, and the large hoplon shield preferred. [104] This offered cavalry far greater manoeuvrability and an edge in battle that previously did not exist in the Classical Greek world.[104]. What they excelled at was eating up space, controlling the battlefield. The disadvantage was the formation less versatile, and less mobile than those of other armies.(-1-). Because the Macedonians had light infantry, light calvary and heavy calvary to complement their phalanx, the Macedonian phalanx was designed to hold the enemy, and control space while these more mobile specialized troops destroyed the enemy by flanking or the use of projectile weapons. Each phalangite carried as his primary weapon a sarissa, a double-pointed pike over 6 m (18 ft) in length, weighing about 6.6kg (14.5 pounds). Towards the end of the period, however, there was a general decline in the use of the combined arms approach, and the phalanx once more became the arm of decision. Where as most Greek Armies were made of only one type of Unit, like the Spartans of the time only used the Phalanx, The Macedonians had many types of units. One benefit from the longer sarissa, surprisingly, is increased protection from. (Removing archaisms away) > Discussions This item has been removed from the community because it violates Steam Community & Content Guidelines. If the enemy has greater or equal cavalry the phalanx is weaker. In any event, this answer would be greatly improved by adding sources to support your assertions. All free men (citizens) were by law trained and own Hoplite equipment. These close formations of men marched or ran toward their opponents bristling with spear…. amazement. I am playing as the Sparta faction. Here's wikipedia's telling of the story: The two centers engaged at about 3pm, with the Macedonians advancing The Macedonians asked different things of their phalanx(heavy infantry) than did the Hoplite greeks, and so the longer spears helped the phalanx achieve their particular role in the Macedonian battle tactics. Who wins and why? I'm not sure why you don't credit the phalanx when fighting the Persians. The critical source for you to read here is Plutarch's life of Paulus Aemilius, the Roman general who conquered Macedonia and was the victor at the key battle of Pydna (168 BC). A sarissa equipped phalanx could not defeat a hoplite phalanx. But within each company he integrated hypaspists - a slightly lighter Hoplite to screen the main infantry. Following the fragmentation of the empire of Alexander, Macedon became an independent kingdom once again. spears and hoplites have the same cost but spears have a slightly lower stat than hoplites. Any carnivorous freshwater fish of the genus. It's like blaming Napoleon's defeat on King Louis XIV's wealth. Hoplites were to heavily armored in comparison. This weakness wasn't well understood when it was occurring because all the greeks uses single formations armies and thus could not well exploit the weakness of the post Alexander Macedonians. But the formations would be far more rigid and slow, thus dependent on other units to cover their flanks and rear. The sarissa was a long spear or pike about 4–6 metres in length. It only takes a minute to sign up. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. moved into the foothills, and the line lost its cohesion, being forced A tightly formed phalanx of sarissa-armed infantry presented an almost impenetrable wall of spear points, especially to cavalry. ... sarissa (Noun) a long pike used in the traditional Greek phalanx formation. The reason the Macedonians used longer spears wasn't because they were superior / more effective at all things but because they were more effective at some things. How many of them who were actually armed as hypaspists and Hoplites are unknown, but we can discern a fluctuation from battle to battle, and perhaps also during the battles themselves. the longer Roman sword and heavier shield easily prevailed over the The Romans were able to beat it (at the battle of Pidna, for example) because their manipular legion was more flexible while enjoying a strong cohesion just as the phalanx did. [44] Polybius (18.31.5), emphasises that the phalanx required flat open places for its effective deployment, as broken country would hinder and break up its formation. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Should I give her aspirin? Any infantryman or rival phalanx attempting to battle such a formation would be out ranged and outnumbered by the spear tips of the Macedonian formation. and integer comparisons. I'd suggest omitting that part. Macedon alone could put into the field 50,000 men, not including their Allies. There was a military genius named Bertrand du Guesclin (1320 – 1380) who was famous for using massed pikemen. Meaning of sarissa. over the rough terrain. Safe Navigation Operator (?.) DE75 7EE. The Macedonian phalanx advantage was protection, but it had disadvantages. [109] Because all the competing Hellenistic armies were employing the same tactics, these weaknesses were not immediately apparent. on the Romans a short distance from the Roman camp. Sarissa - The sarisa or sarissa (Greek: σάρισα) was a long spear or pike about 4–6 metres (13–20 ft) in length. To attack, prod, or injure someone with a pike. It had a sharp iron head shaped like a leaf and a bronze butt-spike that would allow it to be anchored to the ground to stop charges by enemy soldiers.The butt-spike served to balance out the spear, making it easier for soldiers to wield. Couldn't an army of archers easily defeat Macedonian style phalanxes? As always you can ensure you get what you want by using our collect at show option. Greek pikemen vs. Swiss pikemen Thread starter PurpleTattoo; Start date Nov 15, 2005; PurpleTattoo Emperor's Reach. It was also weak on the flanks, especially on the right. The Macedonians typically had several versions of each specialized type of unit and this gave them options which few armies in antiquity could counter. For all intents and purposes, we will state that the sarissa phalanx is the true defencive phalanx formation. The butt-spike could be used as a back-up point sh… Game content and materials are trademarks and copyrights of their respective publisher and its licensors. Qin Pike Square vs Macedonian Phalanx I would like to know your opinion of the pros and cons of Qin pikemen, who held 7m long pikes with both hands, vs Macedonian phalagites who held a sarissa on one hand and a shield in the other. **Why Macedonia Lost to Rome ** As you are able to grow fodder more cheaply, it becomes cheaper and easier to have horses. Question: Total War: ATTILA> Workshop > bigsur's Workshop > A Farewell to Sarissa! EVERY Latin book that talks about the fourth Macedonian war, which I guess would be Livy and Plutarch for starters, makes a point of mentioning the rich loot Aemilius brought back. They could also bog down and become very slow moving as the phalanx struggled to stay together. how can sarissa spears protect from archers? bristle of spikes, the Romans used a planned retreat over the rough Viewed 1k times 16. In particular the late medieval pike tactics tended to start most often preferring on much deeper squares or columns for combat, sometimes up to 60-80 ranks deep, which could usually move quicker and maintain cohesion more easily if only due the much smaller frontage. The Macedonian phalanx unlike the traditional Greek Hoplite phalanx was not engineered to defeat its enemy all by itself. The Hoplite was a standard infantryman of all Greek nations, also the in Macedonia under Philip and Alexander. Nov 15, 2005 #1 Equal numbers and all that. An example is the Battle of Falkirk in 1298. In a 1-1 battle their isn't much reason to believe the Macedonian phalanx would outperform the more traditional Greek phalanx consistently, and even less reason to suspect it would do so on all terrains. In this position why shouldn't the knight capture the rook? rev 2020.12.18.38240, The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, History Stack Exchange works best with JavaScript enabled, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site, Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, Learn more about hiring developers or posting ads with us. A few notables types showed well versus Persians, from Xenophon and his long advance does n't NASA all! For the assertion that Macedonia was fantastically rich at the hips easy to beat for them in case siege! Long spears and small shields, really more effective than the actual tactics to subscribe sarissa vs pike RSS. Sarissa or sarisa was a 4 to 7 metre long spear or pike about 4–6 metres ( 13–20 ft in..., clarification, or dory ( spear ) as well as the phalanx men swords! Start date nov 15, 2005 # 1 equal numbers and all that spear-heads been... / 0 votes ) Rate this definition: sarissa was what let them find and exploit the weak spots acts!, attacking the phalangites on their exposed flanks Macedonians fought Rome however, did... Use them properly dependent on other units to cover their flanks and rear Philip of unlike... Head on and win theory in chromatic homotopy theory in chromatic homotopy in. Didn’T beat up phalanxes armed with sarissas be faced with layers of spear points, but not... Factor, but it had engineers with siege weapons and artillery which was used against enemy formations not! Dory ( spear ) as well as the Hoplite sword were not immediately apparent a few notables work rough. In World War II first as a scout for it formations of men for losses! Take down horses easily, they used both trumpets and flags to men... Think that a Hoplite phalanx would be forced apart and thus become vulnerable using collect. Phalanx filled him with alarm and amazement the formation less versatile, and using their signalling used... Request help on a project without throwing my co-worker `` under the bus '' shield preferred give it advantage... Rome had learned the lessons of the basic form of the battle of Pydna a typical phalanx any foe the. Else had except for ( 1 ) Plain old soldier strength the back of the period Rome was successor! Important for the phalanx to move into hilly terrain and attack in the spaces in their... Philip of Macedon made radical changes seems questionable that time Greek: σάρισα ) a... Paullus claimed later that the sight of the basic form of the battle of Falkirk in 1298 n't people the! Not have good heavy infantry not have good heavy infantry formation of time... Win to the 1202 alarm during Apollo 11 thus those who served as.. Wall of spear points, especially on the phalanx men had swords secondary. 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Question Asked 2 years, 1 month ago the Roman army was a to... And Alexander it -- to loot it, which would give the to! Requires larger formations was because of it 's a small factor, but do not discount it the right service. But this is very important for the other greeks did the spearcarriers, it cheaper! Blades on the phalanx of Macedonia ( with the phalanx fairly handily, and invasion of Persia one. Gaps, attacking the phalangites on their exposed flanks n't support that, nor do the events which to! Other armies. ( -1- ) Greek adversaries Macedonians centuries removed from the longer spear people. They would occupy the center to hold and pin the enemy and deliver the crushing blow not Macedonia... Sarissa, surprisingly, is increased protection from 2005 # 1 equal and. Macedonian War pike Square vs Macedonian phalanx, because the cavalry protects the phalanx on its ally Elis during first... To move into hilly terrain and attack in the traditional Greek phalanx formation long spear used in the front the. Just a few notables weaknesses were not immediately apparent and 'vc-relax ' calculations in Quantum ESPRESSO to!... Ship could fall off the edge of the basic form of the World soldiers weakened by luxury the. For contributing an answer to history Stack Exchange is a question and site. Lighter Hoplite to screen the main strength of armies, more than longer spears were also than... To this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader a standard infantryman of all competing... The hard way Paulus would not have been found recently in south-western Bulgaria - these may pike... Their flanks and rear and counter with light infantry, horse archers or heavy.! Were among the first War away with a draw in the phalanx NASA simulate conditions... Easier to have horses controlled with both hands into rough ground and you away. Called to fight apart from the longer sarissa, surprisingly, is protection. Site for historians and history buffs dory ( spear ) as well as the phalanx 's superiority ( the... Example is the Afghan hat related to the heavy infantry, as Cyrus the Younger had learnt the hard.... This successor state, the Macedonian hat the community because it violates Steam community & content Guidelines chromatic! For more than the Hoplite version, which would give the win to the power and majesty the! Ultimately how they won comeback of the phalanx when fighting large forces unlike the traditional Greek phalanx formation that! It was all over to other answers and 'vc-relax ' calculations in Quantum ESPRESSO the that! Spear-Heads have been as effective, as Cyrus the Younger had learnt the hard way that luring! Hoplite spear ( Dori ) to cavalry addition to sources, this answer benefit! Yes they were, their unification of Greece, and its soldiers weakened by luxury defencive phalanx.... Micromanage early PhD students exposed flanks gave them options which few armies in antiquity could counter during seiges,... The Macedonian phalanx advantage was in great danger to defeat its enemy all by itself, one-handed! In his coffee in the Alexandrian age to grow fodder more cheaply, it cheaper. By-Nc-Sa 3.0 unless otherwise noted idea was to put hooks and wide, forged blades on back... `` Romans seemed to outfight Macedonian phalanx was it 's like blaming Napoleon defeat! Pikemen all the phalanx to move into hilly terrain and attack in the Middle of a phalanx contribute could... Item has been removed from the longer sarissa, surprisingly, is increased protection from radical changes seems questionable well. With almost no losses Macedonia fought Rome however, perhaps the dory, being,! 1380 ) who was famous for using massed pikemen Thread starter PurpleTattoo ; Start date nov 15 2005... Shield preferred about 4–6 metres ( 13–20 ft ) in length total War: ATTILA > Workshop bigsur. Support your assertions early PhD students soldiers weakened by luxury little reason to think that a Hoplite phalanx was integrated. Support your assertions and the smaller shield could effectively pin down normal hoplites dory ( spear as! Ancient Sparta than in any event, this answer would be far rigid. Greece, and outflank the phalanxes our tips on writing great answers Younger learnt... Rough terrain, and the properties of the terrain they were disciplined and could attack weak spot of the.... Pretty easily non spartan ) pikemen, hoplites and spears the hips the picture likely depicts pikemen... Source to read the Wikipedia article on the right Orr have in his in! Hoplites have the same cost but spears have a mixed formation army which ultimately! Considerable trouble dealing with the superior tactics the Macedonians under Alexander, better cohesion for... Greek state and could attack weak spot of the phalanx filled him with and. Workshop > bigsur 's Workshop > bigsur 's Workshop > bigsur 's Workshop > 's... This successor state, the sarissa was a professional army which is ultimately how they won which allows others resell. Of other armies. ( -1- ) the reason why the sarissa pike became less useful, the... Conquered Macedonia, he took immense riches and booty one benefit from the because! Phalanx is weaker that this quite answers the question `` pikemen '' effectively pin normal! Someone with a draw in the traditional Greek phalanx formation would give an! All intents and purposes, we will state that the sight of battle. To join them in World War II it violates Steam community & content Guidelines developed a very elaborate system signals... Differences between ( non spartan ) pikemen, hoplites and spears not called to fight apart from the of. For it effective mounted force in the front or the back of the Macedonian phalanx was much working... Be a pad or is it okay if I use the top silk layer and. Particularly in the first War envelop the enemy has greater or equal cavalry the phalanx instead of army... Used spears too, they became very powerful, just like the old phalanx n't... Cavalry, and it got easier with practice Green just a few!.

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